Synthmaker bundle

[cakebox]

A couple of initial observations about the Tonus 2620 (in case anyone's working on these).

- VSTHost appears to be saving and loading .fxp patches without issue. But unlike the other synths I've tried (so far!) in this bundle, the 2620 only has the one slot - so patches can't be collected into .fxb banks. If it's an 'easy' fix (I know! I know!) .fxb export would be appreciated.

- The spring type reverb isn't attenuated by the sliders.

- The oscillators track the keyboard even in LFO mode: I don't think the original hardware did (though I could be wrong - it's been a while!). With the addition of the 3620's LFO, this probably isn't much of a limitation - might even be considered an enhanced feature in may cases - but maybe something to be aware of.

Two synths out of fifty-howmany that I've spent more than a couple of minutes with.
And two 'keepers'.
Words fail me.

[Spogg]

I still don't get why a humble little free app like vstHost can save presets without having to do this.

k brown

Sorry but I haven't got time to actually test this at the moment but I believe it's down to the way the host application saves the VST state. A while ago I found out that the fxp and fxb files are unique to the host AND the plugin as combined. This means that only the host/plugin combination can reload the patches correctly and no other host can read them. This in turn means that you can't make a universal fxp/fxb editor for example.

There are 2 ways for a host to save presets (patches). One is to save only the preset parameters which must all be uniquely named. The other is to save the whole VST state from the VST's footprint in RAM. This takes longer and leads to bigger files.

In Reaper, if you choose to save the whole state (the default option), you'll get clicks in the audio every time you make a small adjustment with a mouse (for the larger VSTs). This is because Reaper saves Undo states for every change and that can be a lot of "sudden" data for larger VSTs. There is a minimal Undo save setting which removes the clicks but warns that undo may not work for the plugins.

The best reason for the unique naming strategy is so the Flowstone preset txt files can be reloaded into the VST and work correctly. When I first came to FS I came across this problem of reloading presets that then sounded wrong and that was the reason. If all knobs have the preset name set as "Knob" the system won't know which knob.

Cheers

Spogg

[k brown]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9zrmhd1wxup2 ... 3EL6a?dl=0

Tonus 2620 reverb fixed - total oversight on my part.
I set up the keyboard track to be on or off as you wish. The 2600 automatically turned off the keyboard when you switched to LF mode (the Odyssey, also). Since keytrack of 'LFO' rate is sometimes wanted, I implemented the keytrack as on or off at will - the far left CV input 'KBD' can be turned on or off by clicking on it's jack. I know it's not strict emulation, but I liked having this option easily available.

tonus 2620 copy.jpg (179.12 KiB) Viewed 25801 times

The folder above also contains some spruce-ups of 'tableBlend' and 'OB-2'.

Sorry the preset situation is such a mess - I had no idea about any of this when I built these - since I was able to save and re-load presets no problem using vstHost, I though all was well. I hope this doesn't mean this was all a big waste of everyone's time.

[cakebox]

Tonus 2620 reverb fixed

Thank you!
(Could have sworn you said something about having other things you wanted to be doing ...)

I set up the keyboard track to be on or off as you wish. The 2600 automatically turned off the keyboard when you switched to LF mode (the Odyssey, also). Since keytrack of 'LFO' rate is sometimes wanted, I implemented the keytrack as on or off at will - the far left CV input 'KBD' can be turned on or off by clicking on it's jack. I know it's not strict emulation, but I liked having this option easily available.

Very elegant!
I don't know how I could have missed that - I thought I'd clicked on just about everything that was clickable. But I'm quickly getting to realise that these are not only very faithful emulations, but go way beyond that in very smart and musical ways - the FM/PM options, for example. I never thought I'd describe a 2600 clone as 'deceptively simple', but this one sure is.

Sorry the preset situation is such a mess - I had no idea about any of this when I built these - since I was able to save and re-load presets no problem using vstHost, I though all was well. I hope this doesn't mean this was all a big waste of everyone's time.

I can only wish more people were such a waste of my time!
But I guess I'm being a little selfish here - I use vstHost for everything, even in slave mode inside my DAW (MixBus - until recently it didn't support MIDI or VSTIs and 'Legree' was the only way for me to get audio into it). So apart from the odd parameter here and there (like the Joystick on Putnie) I'm not really having any problems.
And I can assure you, the (relatively few) hours I've spent playing these synths, and the many, many more I expect and intend to spend with them can in no way be considered wasted.
In fact, if it wasn't for the obviously addictive nature of the program - and the amount of music-making time I would doubtless sacrifice to it - I would get FS myself and dive in to the vast resource you have so generously donated to the community.

And thanks for OB-2 - apart from the Dodecas that Spogg posted, I don't think I have .dlls for any of the other synths in Bundle-ette2.
(Of course, if I bought FS I could compile the .OSMs myself ...)

[k brown]

Thanks for the kind words - it means a lot to me that someone can get some use out of this stuff.

None of the joysticks that had been crafted by various SM folks had any Preset modules in them, so don't save settings.
I tried to figure this out myself, but it was beyond me. Would be great if a Flowstoner knew how to do this and make it available to all.

I'll get those missing dll.s posted - I forgot that some of those following this thread don't have FS to make their own dll.s.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ugmlc4g7d3jh ... ruQEa?dl=0

k brown

[knozzers]

A while ago I found out that the fxp and fxb files are unique to the host AND the plugin as combined. This means that only the host/plugin combination can reload the patches correctly and no other host can read them.

I can load fxp files created with Cantabile 2 or Tobybear Minihost either in Ableton or Reaper. Banks (fxb) I did not try. I had rarely any differences between the plugin prameters when exported in one host and imported in the other.
Fxp/Fxb should not be host dependent but only plugin dependent.

[nix]

Yes, I too believe .fxp/.fxb is not host dependant.
Saving and loading them should be fine cross-host

[cakebox]

i'm trying to ween myself from all this and concentrate on my landscape painting

Hmmm ... so - how's that panning out?

I'm sure there are many things not functioning correctly or at their best ... If someone gets any of this really spruced up and offers it to the KVR community, that would be cool

Well, they're out there already - and not just KVR.
But, eminently playable as they are (at least the one's I've had time to demo properly), they are still essentially betas.
So if anyone is making .fxbs/.fxps, every update/bug fix/tweak is likely to break them.

Does anyone have experience of managing a project of this scale?
It's clearly too much for one person (even with the help of the mighty Spogg) - else the California landscape is likely to look a whole lot different by time k brown gets around to painting it.
I'm guessing the technical issues will be sorted pretty quickly by the folk around here - the way wavefolding was.
But how does one go about beta-testing and controlling versioning with over 50 synths?
And it seems like most of the necessary work involved will be of the unsexy, laborious, time-consuming, admin-like variety. (Don't all volunteer at once!)

As a mere user/consumer of these extraordinary gifts, I'm reluctant to post about my experiences/findings and create additional work for the dev.

Anyone got any suggestions?

Incidentally - does the FS demo really expire after just 7 days? I can't imagine that would be nearly long enough to work out whether I'd be able to contribute in any meaningful way.

[k brown]

Interesting proposal.

Along similar lines I was thinking of proposing maybe a survey of those following this thread to vote for one synth for me to go through and do all this preset naming, etc. to make the preset functions compatible with most hosts. Personally I think it should be one that's not otherwise available in the soft synth world, or at least poorly represented, AND is also one that I was able to do a fairly accurate and complete emulation of (so not one that has a simple step LFO in place of a real sequencer, for instance).

I'd be willing to do this if someone could spell out clearly what needs to be done. It's interesting that all the SM documentation says is that one simply has to have a Preset Manager in the thing (and set up properly) and that's it. No mention of every control needing a unique name, or all controls must have ranges of 0-1, etc.

As to Cakebox's concern about my time away from painting, I'm taking advantage of the fact that my gallery is closed while moving to a new location; not re-opening till end of Sept., and wont be needing any new work from me till sometime after that. At that point I'll only be able to spend an odd hour or two on synth stuff.

And, yes the current tryout of FS only lasts 7 days!

Thanks for your thoughts,

k brown

[Knob Twiddler]

Hi there, after reading all the new posts in this thread, I would like to offer you my help for the automation part if possible. I do not have programmer skills and I don not own FS, but if the task can be done in a textfile I will give it a try. Or if I can help as an automationtester, please feel free to contact me.

To describe the problem I had:

While testing the Chord PS-20, I midi learned some parameters to my midicontroller. Here 2 bugs arrise. The first one is the fact that all parameters have the same name. It is "almost" impossible to detect what is what. In my DAW Reaper 5 there was a solution to that, the action: "set midi learn for last touched parameter". So when you touch the main volume of the Chord PS-20 and use that action, you can midilearn it to a fysical control but there the 2nd bug appears, because a normal midi knobcontrol (cc) should have 128 values, the Chorr PS-20 main volume makes big jumpes in those values.

You can also fix that 2nd bug in Reaper by loading the parameter as a "track envelope", the track-envelopes have their own buttons and are connected with the synthparameter. Now when you midilearn the track-envelope, you have correct control over the synthparameter without jumps and so you are finally able to record your automation.
But that is a big workaround and it will only work for Reaper.